Living With Each Other Instead of Living For Each Other with Laura Inserra and Nadine Kreisberger

Living With Each Other Instead of Living For Each Other with Laura Inserra and Nadine Kreisberger

We hope you enjoyed this session at Wisdom 2.0.

Sign up for the free Weekly Wisdom News Inner Journey Newsletter:

Check out our online and in-person events at Wisdom 2.0:

Join our Online Practice Community (Pay What You Can)

Foreign [Music] [Laughter] People land here if you want to just do A quick hello in the chat maybe say Where you're calling in from we get a Sense of where in the world we're all Emerging to from today all 73 of us so Far Copenhagen it's always better when Copenhagen is here American Asheville Nairobi oh my Goodness Angelina and Nairobi welcome Uh Phoenix you're not that big a deal We just not very funny Israel Boulder Toronto Oh my gosh I love it sweet Frankfurt Community is global good we have two Very Global International people Leon I learned how it took me a while to Learn how to pronounce Leon you're doing Okay Yeah All right Um my name is Soren and I'm here with Cecily and we're super excited yeah Thank you all for joining Um we have two amazing guests today Lara Nadine who in addition to being Just incredibly inspiring Rich lived Humans individually and together are Also good friends and we met through Just one of the most remarkable series Of serendipity steps one could imagine And it's just beautiful and potent and

Wonderful that you too could join us Here today because you're really Inspiring to us and so it's a very Personal connection and it feels like a Real gift to be able to have one of our Conversations with part of the community Here so thank you for joining thank you Very much yeah your your bios are posted For people who want to learn more about Your backgrounds but I'm going to Highlight a couple things Um Laura who's there on our left Um she comes from I love how you put it The volcanic island of Sicily this is so True so great I never thought about it That way until we met you Um and Laura self-describes as a sound Alchemist a technician of the sacred And a multimedia producer So she is in this really remarkable Space of combining her work and Expression in the world and where wisdom And Tech and music and I would also say Healing all converge let me really just Do this incredible work if anyone has Witnessed any of Laura's experiences That she offers through her metamusic Healing work Um they're really quite remarkable you Were actually at one of the wisdom Events yeah the last wisdom event in the Bay Area earlier this year and uh yeah What an experience so thank you for Joining us thank you all the work you do

In the world amazing Um and then Nadine who also your your Background is remarkable and I'm Impressed you're able to capture it in Just a little bit of a paragraph or two But Nadine was uh I believe raised in Paris you also spent time in New York You've also done work in Hawaii Um you've served in a therapist capacity With an Indian audience in Delhi Um I know that you also worked as the Right hand to a female politician in Mongolia and that had a huge impact on Your life and Nadine today she describes Herself as a joint journeyer which is Just a really beautiful way of A more conventional description to be a Coach or a therapist but you do this Really deep work with people and as we Know from our conversations a variety of Industries around the planet so and the Two of you we know mostly as a couple And you inspire us so much so there's Also this third being which is the two Of you together And that's been a theme for these talks So far so we have a bunch of questions We're going to follow I think the usual Format Um kind of have a conversation like we Often do for a half hour or so and then We're going to open it up to questions So people have questions feel free to Use the hand raise icon or ask in the

Chat and we'll get to you in the second Half of our time Did I leave anything out no is there Anything in your bios that we missed That you want to add or say or anything Seems relevant before we ask you Questions about your relationship is Alive and a living being too so model Unfold that's good okay Anything from Nadine that you want to Say before we yeah So we're going to start with a star Service and it's very Um Immediate and emergent we were texting a Little bit and talking about preparing For today and learned or were reminded I Should say that the two of you Officiated a marriage just this weekend Um and I just selfishly would love to Hear a little bit about what is alive For you right now whether it's in your Relationship or what you were helping to Hold space for or help through your Officiating this this couple's Union Tell us tell us what's alive and please Well um it was my first time officiating A wedding whereas Laura has created a Sacred container for people's Union for Many many years basically Um Laura uses many many sacred Instruments ancient instruments new Unique instruments to to to to to create That space for one of the milestones in

Someone's life right Um it puts everybody on a very different Wavelength and then I came in and this Was my first time To create the synchronous Rewards For a couple actually someone I've Worked with for many years and so and She calls she calls me her Integrationist Shaman so whatever that Means Um and uh her third marriage and so she Wanted to put it on a different Wavelength this time So there were a couple of ideas that I Think could be interesting to share Which have to do with our view of what Is a marriage or what is a relationship And one one for me uh the very important One is the is alchemy So Um let me share just a couple of words About that so uh once upon a time a long Long time ago Uh in many corners of the world there Was this uh wisdom school that emerged That's called Alchemy And it was talking about only one thing Which is what's the meaning of life Why are we here on this planet what is This one chance that we have you know as A as a human being and they were saying Well Um here here is the answer when we are Born

Um we are like this Primal matter this Chaos they called it Prima materia and In this in that chaos there are seeds of Gold And they said the great work of Life They called it the magnum opus if you Heard that expression the great work of Life our whole life is only about one Thing It's finding the seeds of gold inside of Us And becoming them And you can call it the essence of who You are your soul Um the Divine whatever you want to call It Um those are just different words but The the seeds of gold and very often They use the metaphor of being in a lab Where you put a bunch of ingredients in A cauldron and you cook it and you Transmute lead into gold basically it's Like the work of being an alchemist is Becoming more conscious about Who We Are And most of the time they had two people In the lab not one Alchemist because it Was that idea that if we are in a Relationship there's a different Creativity a different intimacy a Different level of chemistry that will Allow a different transmutation of the Lead into gold So basically that was the backdrop of The wedding when we introduced this that

Those two are coming together because They said we're together is because we Want to become the best version of who We can be and so it was like yeah that's Exactly what Alchemy talks about so this Is how we started basically but you know In a sweet humorous way Wow and and how does how does that Express in in your guys's relationship How does your Togetherness Help you be the best version you could Be I know in some of our times together Talked about I think the quote you've Used as guardians of each other's Solitude as a component of that like Tell us a little bit about how that is Alive in in your three bodies yeah You want me to say something yeah well As you can see in my expression of Oh I present myself to be you see sound Alchemists so for me Alchemist for Nadine has been always an inspiration And a reference so in that is as if Within Already being an alchemist in our own Lab which at times we can call it this Sacred Garden right there's a place Within us that only you can tap into you Know there is this sense of also Solitude at times of being you know Within yourself this one uh Solo witness of life And then when we met actually it was

Interesting because since almost like The first day I saw in her the other Alchemist in her own lab being alone you Know and and transforming our own life And on Um Uh everything that she was doing in this In this great you know work so in that When we United somehow I felt that uh Finally I had a companion on my lab Someone I could trust someone that could You know with me add more gold because In that I think every relationship it is About alchemy so when you meet someone Else if he's a friend of your mom or it Is that third element that the union of The two that creates the experience of What in that moment is going to rise About you and about to the other person So when we met this as if you know our Two Alchemists finally like ah I have a Companion and I can trust you because I Can see already you are flourishing in Your love with Incredible Um gold and experiences so there is this One element of Already we met in that field of being in Each other life with this incredible Desire of creating the best we can do And then together as if we combine our Tools and so we created what we Described at times this third element as In alchemy you know you put two matters Together but what really is in the pot

Is this third element that now is beyond The singularities of the two and that's What we call in our third kind of Um guard Sacred Garden and now we share Together and so there's this element of Being each other uh Um a gardener which are the guardian of The garden of the other Solitude and at The same time in that there's this other Garden where you can meet and be in this Sacred Space that only had an eye anyway We have and they'll keep unfolding Things that are way bigger than what I Can do by myself and I feel for you it's The same I think we should say that we got Together at a certain stage of life you Know we we didn't get together in our 20s We were in our early 40s So I think it's important to share that Because it's like we had done already a Lot of journeying Um and and in a different way so I was Always on my own I was not in a long-term relationship I Wasn't I was an Explorer of life going Around the world obeying like an inner Injunction you know to take one-way Tickets and go to New York and then to Hawaii and then to Mongolia and then to India and then finally to California uh Laura has always been in a relationship Always Non-Stop and so she learned so

Much and I learned in a different way And so when we came together I think we Had already done a lot of work on Ourselves so so that's important and the Thing that you were asking Um real okay the German poet was saying That in in the most beautiful Relationships we actually appoint each Other as the guardian of our Solitude And and the way I understand that is That you know like in many esoteric Traditions they say That we should never merge entirely with The other person because if we merge Completely it's totalitarian we don't Exist anymore like where is the space For for for that single individual right And if we disappear into this then at Some point there's nothing left you see What I mean so we always need that Secret Sacred Garden and even Symbolically when we got married and we Did a spiritual ceremony we sh we we Wrote on a parchment a secret And we sealed it and we gave it to the Other person And it's the idea that the other person Is a guardian of the secret but doesn't Open it and so it's very important to Have that space which is our space where We find ourselves but the fact that we Have this relationship and it's like Someone else has my back Then I can be more vulnerable right I

Can explore even more I can go even Deeper because I'm safe And the second thing is if I'm with Someone that Alchemist in the lab I get A mirror where I see myself in ways that I cannot see myself on my own because There's the there's a limit to how much We can go alone we need those Experiences we need the mirror and if It's someone I know who with whom I can Be who won't put a dagger in my heart Um then we can go deeper and deeper and Deeper and deeper and discover more and More gold or heal older things There's like a lot to say about that And it's also distrust of uh leaving the Other person in her own Journey And at times it's not a journey that Involves me and I trust that whatever Choice she's making for her own life I want for her the best expression she Can be so there's also this other Element of Putting aside and being just a witness At times and not involved in you know Moments in the other person's life where Maybe there is a transition maybe there Is a need for expansion in in the work Direction and so that also being a Little bit aside for us is a place where We have built so much trust and we and We have promised each other that you Know no matter what you know before me I Want your best and that's where I think

There is this beautiful it's like to be With each other insteading to be for Each other there you know I'm there for You all the time so if you need I'll be There and somebody lost myself I would Lose myself but I said this trust is Beautiful I think natural Uh way to Even at times if I need help she's not There I know that that moment it's Because I have to regain power in me Because I know that if I push and I Really say hey I need to talk to you now She will be there but that also being a Time is not available from the other Person but knowing that she's there For me it's very important because it's The first time in my relationships where I go back to my own resources And that's that's really powerful it's Beautiful yeah and what do you do if There's not Alchemy you know that it's Not something's blocking it or past Trauma is coming in and you're just not Able to access a sense of kind of shared Vision and shared connection how do you Is there how do you tend to respond to Those moments and ways that yeah I mean Yeah I think you should say something Yeah well Honestly I don't know I don't know that We've encountered that in a direct way And I'll tell you why and that's really Something we would love to share with

Everyone Um along the years I developed a tool That I called a round table of inner Characters so I'm under therapy 24 7. Well I make music around here at the Same time every day we are in continuous Like really more Um the round table the round table of Inner characters has helped us so much I Think that's one of the reasons we don't Don't have those explosions and Everything so it's this simple idea I Didn't invent it Carl Jung talked about It and many other people before that That there are many facets inside of us And those different facets have Different needs and different desires And different fears and different Limitations and some aspect of me is the Wise one that can have you know Like an Eagle View about life and can think About what is the life for a lived and It's The Alchemist and all those Expressions and I have inside of me a Doer and I have a warrior and I have an Idealist and I have a lover and I have That little girl inside and I have a Rebel Etc etc and most of those characters Inside of us they have an expression That I call in the light meaning a Really positive one and some in a shadow Version you know like to take the Expression for the warrior it can be a

Samurai with a code of honor or it can Be a wild beast when I when I get Triggered and I can you know that side Of us that we don't love but it's there So From the beginning We've very playfully shared the oldest Characters inside of us With nicknames that are pretty fun and Uh and so you know like when instead of Saying you did this or you said that or I feel like that and all of this it's Um about the character it creates Immediately a distance you'll be like The tiger is here clearly because I Agree I'll give you an example like I'm Super hungry so don't I don't I can't Hug you anymore [Laughter] Or for instance we love it's not work For us it's like Um it's it's Way Beyond it's a soul Journey we adore what we do and Sometimes it means crazy hours and so on And so forth and so it it can happen That let's say the lover in her or the Lover in me says hey I or the little Girl I need a hug right so but instead Of saying You're ignoring me you're just like only On your computer for 12 hours it's like Nadineet that's my little girl She would love a hug right now can Whatever the name of her doer is can

Stop for a minute and it's nadinette you See what I mean it's not me and it's not You who are ignoring me it's like the Door who's like a little bit dictatorial Here and so immediately there's a Distance it's playful and it it creates The space for it and then boom and then She can go back to work after giving me A hug so that we've had since the Beginning and I think that's helped the Communication so much to understand way Who feels what right now with the Character but I think that's also a Powerful tool that already we use Individually you know at times like um I Feel that my doer is too much taking Time of my day and so I'm out and I'm Doing some gardening and I have Leonardo Is my Gardener you know he's like the One that takes here and I feel that you Know there's a part of me oh my God I Should send this email I can't believe I'm here doing gardening and and then I Come back and I say well There's space now for Leonardo otherwise That side of me will be out of balance Is this connection with nature so for me It's again it's a metaphor we are using Really metaphors and and this just to Describe those other energies that Actually we need we need the times to Express our anger because it's you know Heat emotional heat needs to release Once I do it if she has an understanding

Of what is within me it's releasing what Then there is less confusion and so I Think there is more of this and it's Playful because again we get names That's great I know um from some of our Conversations I love that you brought up That Nadine you've been largely a solo Journey a journeyer and until you were Together at least and then Lara you I Think you described once that you've Just been in the in the learning lab of Relationship your whole life like this Has been where you've done so much of Your growth it's so cool that you can Speak openly about how you brought those Two backgrounds together to create where You are now But I remember also you were mentioning That one of the main things that you Brought in Lara at the beginning was Wanting to be clear about the difference Between needs and wants and this is Something that you knew is going to be Really important in this next Relationship expression it's a topic That's come up in these hours already so We would love to hear a little bit about What that means for you guys and what's The difference and why it matters Yeah Um You know there are times where again Like For any reason

I'm in this moment where I need Something I need that hug that we're Talking about And when you also trust that the other Person is not that is there because it's Asking for attention so they're like I Want this I want your attention I want That we spend time together it's more From a place of what do we really need I just need right now uh Maybe in the tag I just re I just need To feel myself again to just ground at All and so to identify as well that um We talk about needs and so there is Distrust that if I really need something I ask her she will be there for me Whereas whenever the other person is Always there wanting something for you There are moments where we lose that uh Also understanding of The value it's like it really you know Is that a career needed no matter what My doer is asking me feminist priority I Will stop even a conversation with the Biggest of if she needs me So there's also that the other kind of At least In the past relationships I was a lot in Relationships with co-dependencies Where again instead of being you know Like two people and having a little Piece where we in the center we share And then we have this other Dimensionalities our own life path at

Times I've been like that you know like A tiny room and that's I think where we Fail in in in the Journey of being Together because again then there is This confusion of you don't know anymore Like if you are just asking because There are all these one things And asking from a place of need and and That's where I would show up no matter What you know I mean does it make sense Like do you wanna Yeah yeah I remember you're describing once early On needing that in the beginning of the Two of you Um I'm actually gonna say with Lara you Mentioned that you'd you'd be kind of Quiet together in the home Both doing your own thing And then you'd kind of look around the Corner and Nadine would be reading And you had to realize like oh yeah She's actually she's okay very happy She's okay no at the beginning I had Like panic attack like should I be there Maybe entertaining yeah or like you know Maybe just be sure to ask her how do you Want to do something because I had again The relationships where the other person Didn't have so much I think of uh air on Um interest on self-esteem her own way To entertain herself Saying that codependency when we enter Codependencies the problem is that again

The other person you're not you're Living for the other person and you are Living in the other person and that Inn Is in even more of challenging when we Um enter relationships that now I'm Inside that a person so whatever the Other person feel I feel And if she gives me value or something To do I'm doing something otherwise I'm Bored But that's a longer conversation because That's a long path of personal growth to Looking the relationship you had with Your parents the look at the Relationship of the environment you grow Up with so in that again it is being in This awareness and mirroring each other Always I go there like hey I feel like That I should be here with you I feel Weird that I'm doing my music are you Okay and she's like what are you talking About of course I'm okay it's in another Case maybe I should not verbalize it and I was there in this thing which I don't Understand why I'm there maybe even the Other person then you enter this So I think that communication for sure And not to keep informing each other of What's in my inner environment right now How is it in an environment oh happy Reading great I'm going back to my Studio so that's true we had an Interview with uh Jack cornfield and

Trudy Goodman I think it was last week And they had said they spend like Sometimes two to three weeks apart one Will be in one house in in the LA area One in the other house in the Marin area And they got together in I guess their Late 60s early so they had a full life Kind of what they were used to but they Said they noticed after a certain amount Of time they really need to be together There's like a two to three week period Where they like go you know what enough Of this and I'm curious how you navigate Those terms Well again so it's because I was on my Own always it's really not an issue for Me to be on my own Because I I've had such a rich life and I've had such gorgeous Soul connections With human beings around the world or Being in nature and so it's it's a Gorgeous space that I'm in and for my Work I'm a lot in Europe or in New York Where I'm on my own for two three four Weeks and I love also that because it's Different you know like when you show up To a dinner and it's one-on-one or with People I've known for a long time or in French uh you know all those things are Different and it's beautiful but I've After two three weeks it really feels Like Oh Missing the richness you know of the Earth and and simply the yumminess of

Being together of waking up together of Going to sleep together just do simple Things I think it's also our home you Know we are home for each other so when We rejoin it's as if now we've been Doers and doing so much we find each Other back because we ground each other So again at times it's not about the Other person it's about this possibility Of feeling back in your body in presence In moment of time and and that's our in Italian we call it the focola domestico Which means the the domestic fireplace Meaning the place where at the end of The day after the work you've done for The tribe in the field you go back and There is this beautiful warm fire that Is eyes there not telling you stories It's just being and that's I think what We are for each other after journeys of Being aside I'm also also like okay Being alone I'm a tiger as a as you know So I need the swell and I have also like So much If you talk with my community they think I'm like whoa but it is also laborator There are times shrinking and you know And that's where Nadine you know helps Me just allowing the little one in me to Be there and to be heard and to be Welcomed and also I'm a physical I'm Like Sicilian so you know the Physicality the senses like ah the flash I'm just doing that it's like feeling

The bones it allows me to rejoin the Human in me because I feel each one of Us we are semi Gods I always say that Half humans and half divines Yeah we have this all these Journeys This sense of time it is you know Infinite and Immortal as when we were Kids and still have hints as adults and Then there is the human one the one that Is there that needs that bone force of Gravitational Sense of simple simple life is Flowing My heart is beating and it's fine Dolce Ferniente it's another beautiful way to Say it in Italian that you have this Chance Dolce ferniente means the sweet Doing nothing but you're just sitting And appreciating life in your senses as Human Because we eventually become Divine Again So in this being human for me also the Sensorial Experiential part of Being Human it's so juicy I miss that The times and so that's when I also said To each like hey I just want to oh Statue and work up with you in the Morning and just melt In the senses so yeah that's what I miss Most and I'm curious Do you remember like were your vows very Much about I'm here I'm here to help be A

Protector of your soul or how did you Express your vows in a way that feels Like there's like both Independence but Also your committed couple and and as a Committed couple there's certain kind of Restrictions is the right word but There's certain kind of like Guard rails or intentions that that like That you know that you're going to be There for each other and you know that There's a certain commitment and I'm Curious how you you remember them well I Mean definitely yes and yes to Everything you said all of that was There Um among others one of the things we did Was the the Celtic ceremony of the Yeah it's like an infinite ribbon thread That we put around uh both hands and and It's like infinitely stretchable and It's this idea of being tied you know uh Soul to soul no matter where we are on Earth so there is that that's that idea Of the thread where Um we constantly nurture each other and We constantly Um as much as we grow on our own then it Feeds that third That connection that at times if she's Even in Europe and I'm here something Happens to her I feel it no we unify in That thread I call it I call it the Golden silver Cordon which is an Energetic field where I want to be sure

That if something happens there I wanna I wanna have that channel open for him Why do you do that you'll feel you'll be Walking we're very terrific actually We're quite telepathic which is natural I think it happens to everybody it's not Because you have a gift like when you Have a crush on someone how many times You have like you and then I mean let's See if you probably you know have been There and then you text something oh my God I can't believe it you just said That that just was you know hearing this On the TV and you're now saying to me so It's as if um as humans we have this Antennas and there are different Channels that we can tune to and so that Is a portal love is a portal as a mother For a child is a portal as a mother you Wake up three minutes or three seconds Before your child is crying because it Needs milk what is that terribly it's Not because we are special because we Have them as a capacity as humans and Love does that so in that like uh we we Also established this kind of commitment This kind of you know values of I'll be There for you if you really need me Again need versus Wants people will keep talking but if You do have a question you can put it in The chat sorry to interrupt and you can Also go under reactions and then there's A raise your hand button

Um so we're going to keep talking and if Anyone wants to join engage Um you're welcome sorry yes and just say A word about the vows so there were a Couple of things Um one was the idea of love and freedom Not love or Freedom essential this is Essential so for me because I was so Much that was my worry right of being in A long-term relationship of suffocating Yeah that my freedom won't be there so It's the idea it's love and freedom but In parenthesis because we are also in The Bay Area this doesn't mean we are Polyamorous just to be sure because at Times it's important for me especially In this kind of community so that Freedom or it doesn't mean that now I Can be with any lover there is a Sacredness within our condensed field Which is the body and I always tell Nadine if one day you feel something for Someone there's an expression of you That I cannot give it to you go for it I Mean doesn't mean that now you have to Be just with me but it's again that Communication what is within you that Only that man or that woman in that Moment in time it's delivering to you And so we are also aware that it's not About the other person you're meeting There is something in you that only Through that other Alchemy it could be Expressed and that's where it is also

Part of the freedom that I give it to Her so we are not polyamaries but if There is anything that it's needed for The other person to in that freedom Discover more of herself That's of course it's part of the Commitment And another point in the vows was Um it came from talking to people who've Been Successful beautiful gorgeous couples Up until their 80s or 90s and asking Them but what tell us you know what's Your wisdom about that and the number One thing we heard was always about Something along the lines of Keeping never putting the other person In a box as if I know you And and and leaving the other person Also has a mystery Basically yes there is a familiarity Between us but yes you're also a mystery And that mystery will keep unfolding and Evolving and and there's a fluidity that Comes from that and there's a freedom That comes from that instead of Crystallizing the other person as you Are like this And that's beautiful because the Patterns we have going back uh Cecilia When you said the That the times of Euro and remember Sorry that he said what about what you Do with those energies within you those

Uh Shadows You know in that there is also this Possibility that then we mirror each Other that shadow back right and that's So by the way we did Shadow vows yeah Just in case it can Inspire someone so Our teachers told us to do that which Was very wise because when we when we Pronounce vows it's always from our Highest self right like our best Intentions for one another uh of wanting The best for you and the best for me the Best for us as that third element But what about the shadow Meaning all those forces in me that come From survivalism that come from fear That come from Whatever transgenerational trauma that Um it's not the most refined part in me And they might get triggered yeah you Know or also there are all sorts of Parts of me that goals that we I haven't Discovered yet I don't know it's in the Shadow you know so when we Being more centered more yeah so when we Are together it's gonna help us it's Gonna it might trigger some of the Difficult Shadow or might reveal some of The gorgeous Shadow but definitely when We get together it's all of us not only That beautiful best self that we you Know present on the day of the vows and So we we had Shadow vows which is the Acceptance of that the acknowledgment of

That and also well if that happens then Where do we go with it so so the shadow Valve might be something like I Acknowledge that there's parts of you That I do not know and it might arise And I say yes to to the shadow as well That is that good yeah and again back Into trust right because I trust that That is part of you and I trust that you Will deal with them too to integrate it That is essential it's not like okay You've blown me and that's perfect Because I love you because I get you Know no wait wait a minute like what is Coming for who's there right oh that's My actually my little one it is Screaming it wants ice cream well let's Buy some ice cream It's a commitment It's the commitment to dealing with it Instead of dumping it on the other Person There is another element that is Fundamental at the same time We refine all of that not again only for Within this content or this container Then there was a vowel also expressing And sharing this with the whole sentient Beings knowing and acknowledging that Our being in this earth in this Expression of human as we are it is it Has purpose and we're doing this for the Rest of humanity So within that again as Warriors we are on the same team as

Warriors probably that's what warriors Were doing back then because every Warrior had a companion had a Partnership usually was a younger man Actually there was a lot of Homosexuality within Warriors too and in Let us we're in the Fielding of code of Honor and values so we bring those Within this we almost like train Ourselves here and refine and then boom We bring it in the work we do with Others it's also like what I love of our Weight of conceiving even our work is That we keep evolving as individuals It's not like oh I have now my right you Know my mental music it does this isn't This she has four tools We keep going and refining and do Journeys of the Soul so that again here We can rebalance them and so we bring Balance in our work in our You know in my music I should say we Work together and then we want another Amazing thing so basically in what I do It's a combination of jungian deaf Psychology spiritual Traditions Management coaching DreamWork all of That And it has its limitations And I always believe that when someone Is on the on this journey of knowing who They are and finding that inner goal and Removing the obstacles to become All that goal uh we need as many tools

As possible and quite often I Rec I Suggest to them to have a session with Laura because a sound Journey will take Them to places where even DreamWork Won't and it's a form of trends of Altered States Of Consciousness that can Be extremely powerful so we also to to Remove traumas to deal with difficult Emotions to access inner guidance Yeah and so we also we also integrate All those things by working together Which is beautiful Doing we uh so you can always raise your Hand we love to see people's faces if You want to ask a question but we have Some in the chat yeah here's one Um were you two always into women Romantically This is right kind of thing regardless Of your sexual orientation Um Well for me Um since I was a child I never really Felt I'm a woman I always said them Louder Because I did I had this kind of a lot Of energy masculine energy and at times At night I was like a little child Looking for my mom so I had these two Strong uh inner fields and I always was In love for what was the soul of the Other person unfortunately since I tried That too many big questions and Sensitivity so I remember that I was in

Love at times for or feeling that sense Of I want to join with this woman or With a man But I have to be honest like in my Experience a relationship with women I Had always more I found more home I Found more the depth that I'm probably Looking for but if that was incarnating In a man body it would not be for me a Problem it's not like you know I'm not Attached to the body physical expression The sexuality it's not like what is Within that body And yeah I've been like in different Relationships with men and women but the Most longer one or the ones that they Are meaningful to me they have been uh In that sense incarnated in women but Which is beautiful Well I was a tomboy But I I think I was drawn mostly to Girls but I grew up in a quite Homophobic family uh very very I was Very very Um brainwashed about the idea that I Need to find a man and have a family and Have children and it was very very Strong in my upbringing and so I think So basically I didn't have the courage That Laura had to to explore that fully I did a little bit when I lived in New York because New York is a place where You can be free and explore everything But I still told myself that no actually

I one day I will switch and I'll be Really into man you know but it's like And not only that but Um when I lived in Mongolia and I lived In India those are not places where you Can freely explore being with a woman It's just not The dawn thing really in actually it was Not even legal in India until just a few Years ago you could go to prison for That so just to tell you the context was Very different yet to become who I was Meant to become it was really my journey To be in those places so I so yeah so But when I met Laura there was no Question I was finally home and I was Finally honoring my true nature It's beautiful Um here's another one going back to the To the shadow work Uh when life is stressful for both of You and you feel under-resourced or Unrefined which I love that word by the Way Um or have conflict with one another or Frustrated as you said how do you handle When you're in your shadow Well that's where really the the round Table of characters is so useful because Immediately it's like well who is Activated and so I have a survivalist His name is Vlad And he's like and this comes from Because I don't think we've met vladian

Housing no you've never met Vlad I don't Think I'm looking for better people yeah We do hear all of the work 24 7. He got activated uh once once at the Beginning of our relationship and that's When we I discovered him really and I Gave a name to that side in me me for me It's if I'm So I have Eastern European origin which Is the the reason for the name probably And he's very rugged he's a bit like in The forest he's just about survival and Uh when I when when I feel in danger he He shows up and it's about escaping I'm Not like really a confrontational person I can be but it's mostly about I'm gonna Escape Um and I shut down So he showed up one day and it was Really not nice and that's when we Discovered him you know and that was uh Just a few months into our relationship But again it's uh thanks the fact that I Was in my own Center and I felt like Wait a minute this is a projection like Who's talking here like what is this Like I've done nothing actually I'm Telling you this is me feeling in danger And you are like shutting down you know What is it so and and at that at those Moments like is also to be witness it's Painful at times you also need the Courage to step away from the other Person triggered and give space and

Trust again it's not only me I can do That for her I know in that space we Have also mentors that we we we trust And so she will do a reading or a Session with one of our teachers or You know again it's we don't rely only In each other resources and that's again The beauty or we ask Sauron and Cecily To have dinner and it's like hey okay I'm going through this what do you think About this guys and so we have also this Playful way to put it out without shame Or without them talking about it and That's already for me healing that's Ready for me transformation but truly in My experience of our relationship Vlad Has almost never been triggered since Then it's very very rare oh I've seen Him yeah really like you know but Aggressively but I saw it that's not Like a December wait a minute yeah yeah But that's overall overall I feel that The fact that we can talk about it and Integrate that side and I still read it That was it yeah so I think just naming Those sides and be like wait a second Why is he why is blood with us just now And so from yeah for that question from The other side that you see that you Don't need to rush to think oh you Should change it now you did this now Again the trust of eventually should get It and we'll get him out when it's the Right time

No we basically put him under the Guidance of a wise Warrior so that I Would feel safe I would still feel safe Because this is really important yeah But not triggered yeah okay Like deeper dinner conversation about All the people but Um when you touched on this Um You touched on this already and Exchanges earlier in the hour so I don't Feel like I'm uh violating anything but We did the last time we saw you guys in Person we talked about one of these Shadow moments Um hopefully Sasha's not being too Distracted she's barking right outside Yeah she's okay welcome Um And uh I remember one of the one of the Moments that you guys shared about so Beautifully which Um if you could just open what you're Comfortable Um here was around one of those moments That happened last month or two when you Were in different countries with your Respective families in Europe and it was An intense time if I remember correctly Yeah kind of health issues in one family And other things going on in the other And you're both immersed in your Respective home worlds and one of you Really needed the other and that was me

Not reachable And you had all of this like opportunity For work come up in the moment because It was one of these like need one Moments Um tell us how how do you do that I'm More that person in our relationship Like I definitely am more the one who Would try to reach a story and be like Wow something you know super intense is Happening and I get into that kind of Like need I'd be the one who's busy Doing you're distracted But then the way you described it Laura I was so amazing at how you worked Through it and embraced it would you Just share that with us a bit yeah as You said Rick I was in in back in Sicily After three years and covered then a Loss of one of my uncles so I wanted This field of Again the Resonance of being not in my Shadow but in those other fields of Energy which at times family does it for Us where all of the worst in you gets Instigating in the painful moments are There and I was trying to reach uh Nadine and she was in her own uh field With actually in her family Uh and working so I didn't in that need Of having her there for me telling me oh I'm so sorry that you're doing this she Was more facing Actually I'm here in Paris it is

Beautiful yes I'm with my mom so she was Giving me hair piece and so we we found A moment where They need ahead of hair coming towards Me was not available Was too much even to get that phone call So once thought that I verbalizing we Are in that understanding again I took That opportunity of being in Solo to go Back And Phil what are my resources but I Told her something that for me was Essential at all that you know what I'm Sending you Laurita Laurette is my Little one which was not good idea to Bring it with me in CC meaning that you Know the one in me that still is there Looking for the best mother and looking For my family all in our money because I Can be happy now So I thought they had this thing you Know what why don't take that part in me That it feels no safe here and I can be The doer because I was feeling that my Emotional state Of those Shadows Were too much and she didn't she said Like you know what I'm taking it and she Sent me the other the the the day after A picture with the Pana chocolate a Chocolate factory I felt like a part of me was safe again And I could be the doer and I was in my Mission and I was helping you know my

Family as best as I could and I think I Left incredible you know gold there so You both gave and you gave and you Received it sounds like exotic it was Just enough to just remove that part of Me and and give it to such a place or Someone was safe I just needed to feel safe I just don't I didn't need hair because the last Thing I wanted was hair physically in my Family crazy So I was not missing hair physically and It was clear to me because poor you if You were here So it was interesting that I realized I Just was missing that uh feeling safe Where she is for me again that home of Safety and just giving her energetically That part of me that was not safe I was Triggered it gave me the strength to Continue and then I crashed after that But that's another conversation Actually I went to Spain and I was at The door and had incredible powerful Work and I found myself in that Solitude And being okay with it actually being Almost like it was not it was beautiful Because nadina was also outside of me And I had the strength as this Soul Incarnate in this body driving a car in Spain in Catalonia going back home and That was the first time that in that Being solo I was the whole universe this Year I mean I had inside my pain my

Missing my longings and my joy of being There with myself in love with who I am That's great We have Um we have a question from Rick I'm Asking you to unmute There you go hi welcome hi thank you Um I'm wondering if the two of you could Address Obviously things are getting better in Society but even this late In our in the history of the world there Are certain Anti-alchemists particularly Alchemy of Certain types That inspired violent reaction Um if you could whisper in the air or The heart of those people A thing or two what would you like to Say to them what would you what would You express to them And Rick just to just so I'm clear like This would be people who don't think Certain ethnicities or genders should be Together or with religious group Whatever their notion that this this is The right way and all these other ways Are the wrong way yes exactly even to The extent of taking up arms to stop it Okay thank you sure Rick Human Nature Human Nature There's so much to say Um

Yeah and I Don't Know Jack always had Jack hornfield always does this thing And I don't want why I'm compelled to Bring in Jack Spirit but Jack will often Saying is there a reason why this is Particularly important to you Rick or is It just more Oh sorry Uh you're asking me and again sorry About that oh I'm sorry can I can you're Good with this no you're good I I I Guess because I'm mystified Um That it's a lesson we don't seem to Learn Um And I'm just Wondering if if The people who have a tendency to be Anti-alchemists in that way if there's Any level on which they could be reached Maybe the answer is no I don't know but I'm gonna answer you to that please As a as individual we also have places Where we repeat our patterns and they Are damaging our life and we are still There reacting at the same way and we Are 60 years old how did we not learn That lesson I already saw myself there When I was 20. I'm doing it again I believe that there is a course of time And and the only thing we can bring as Individual is to be that inspiration That tuning fork you want to see out

There We can't Speed up anybody work of evolution you Can't do it for your mom you can't do it For your son the only thing and the only One you can do it is for yourself So if we shift as individuals I believe That as a collective we'll have more Chance To have those transformations And to eventually learn but Unfortunately we can't not speed up them But we can make a contribution So my question is how do we and with the Courage of even being killed if you were In India how can I still be myself And show people that there is a Possibility of being an alchemist and it Has a value and it does You know something that supports Evolution instead of devolution There's a A vast majority of people who are very Very dogmatically against That actually truly have that type of Desire inside of them right and we know That that very often people who are Extremely against viscerally against It's very often because They have it inside of them I have to Say that I've encountered a number of People for instance who are victims in The Catholic church as a boy you know And so then it it made them very

Homophobic but it came from their own Trauma so Um There are so many different reasons Right So I've seen people change a little bit Like what Laura said when they saw niece Or nephew and they they gradually Understood it's not what they had been Taught you know in their dogmatic Whatever religious upbringing or Something like that Um so I've seen that another thing I've Seen very interesting is like people Didn't realize don't realize that in all Cultures around the world until Monotonistic religions Invaded those places uh same same-sex Relationships whether everywhere Absolutely everywhere Um in fact I don't know if you know but There were marriages in the church until The 12th century of men they were men Who were Saints canonized as coupled So all of this is a cultural Evolution You know but you go to Papua New Guinea You go to China you go to Japan you go To South America you go into many Indigenous groups here in the United States and Um either and and that was accepted you Know it was just the way it was actually In many many Native American groups and I saw it actually also in Asia when

Someone a boy or a girl had those Tendencies like the girl was more Tomboyish and the boy was more feminine It was that's a sign that this child is Going to be a shaman this child is going To have very very particular abilities And so he's or she's more sacred you Know more special and we're gonna bring Him to be an apprentice to another Shaman right etc etc so I think when People realize The history a little bit that helps also Sometimes sometimes Thank you thank you Rick Thank you we are at the hour I know I just did deep blessings uh Laura if we're Nadine if people want us Stay in touch with you or find out more About you where do they go what do they Do Uh for me it's very easy tap on Google Laura and Sarah and you'll see many ways In which you can stay in touch Lauren is my website okay and yeah Well it's my name also Nadine Kreisberger it's very complicated to Write but sorry about that But it means Circle of Life Go to seeds of gold Institute okay and you see we are the Founders you will reach us through our Non-profit as well thank you well we are Going to let everybody and mute Themselves now and we can say hello and

Goodbye and blessings in any and all Languages so you can unmute yourself you Can go to gallery view And uh we can see some of the amazing Human beings on this call And uh somebody in the chat said I'll Start out thank you thank you thank you Um

Recommended For You

About the Author: James Quinto

James is a content creator who works in the personal development niche.